tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4585442725225382080.post5304984471535141352..comments2023-06-17T06:59:05.555-05:00Comments on Target: Babies in Open.<br> Fire For Effect.: 69 Years Ago- The Second Happy TimeComrade Misfithttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15404477636451308763noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4585442725225382080.post-40838634745598367592010-12-19T09:19:08.134-06:002010-12-19T09:19:08.134-06:00BadTux,
The big development was airborne radar on...BadTux,<br /><br />The big development was airborne radar on large 4-engined ASW patrol aircraft. Of course, that meant that the Air Force had to give up some airplanes, which they refused to do, until it was made clear to them that a lot of their supplies were being sent to the bottom by U-boats operating in the mid-Atlantic "air gap".<br /><br />I define a "submarine" as a boat that can operate at least as well, if not better, submerged. Snorkels didn't help much; they were detectable by airborne radar and the subs could not really transit while snorkeling, as the snorkels would leave a "feather", as you can see periscopes doing in movie footage.<br /><br />The Kriegsmarine did develop some very advanced boats, the Type XXI, aka the "Elektroboote," toward the end of the war that could outrun some of the subchasers and were capable of extended operations before surfacing. Germany made over 100 of them, but there were so many QC problems with them that maybe two or three got into the war.Comrade Misfithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15404477636451308763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4585442725225382080.post-6240733358829930482010-12-19T00:40:57.867-06:002010-12-19T00:40:57.867-06:00Charles, it wasn't until late in the war that ...Charles, it wasn't until late in the war that the Germans developed the snorkel, which allowed them to operate submerged for extended periods of time. Until that development, U-boats spent most of their time on the surface and did most of their attacks while surfaced, and submerged only during rare daylight attacks or while trying to evade surface warships. Their range and speed on batteries was quite limited, a few hours at best at maybe 5 knots max and they were done. <br /><br />The biggest problem U-boats had was when the Allies developed radar. That, rather than escort vessels, is what forced them to develop the snorkel, because once Allied warships had radar, they could spot the oncoming U-boats at long distance. Before that, the U-boats could generally see surface warships before the surface warships saw them (due to being low in the water and small) and submerge until the surface warships were past, but after that, they were sitting ducks -- the warships could spot them first, then bracket them, ping them with sonar from multiple directions to absolutely pinpoint their location (another important development), and sink them with depth charges.<br /><br />So anyhow, snorkels were what allowed U-boats to be real submarines that could operate submerged most of the time. Fortunately for us, by that time (early 1944) the Russians were kicking the stuffing out of the Germans on the Eastern Front and had cut off access to so many strategic materials that the Germans couldn't build a lot of U-boats with snorkels. <br /><br />EBM can undoubtedly enlighten us more on this whole subject, but I don't *think* I misrepresented much here. U.S. submarines were just as limited, maybe moreso since they didn't have working torpedos at all until late 1943, but used similar tactics -- which continued working all the way until the end of the war and cut off strategic materials to the Japanese mainland almost entirely because the Japanese *never* got a clue.BadTuxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01345749557330760251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4585442725225382080.post-34174431293992218462010-12-18T23:56:20.728-06:002010-12-18T23:56:20.728-06:00Submersible, not submarine? What makes a true subm...Submersible, not submarine? What makes a true submarine?Chuck Pergielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14473338620167201696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4585442725225382080.post-71969343410467274592010-12-18T20:32:05.536-06:002010-12-18T20:32:05.536-06:00Yeah. There was one U-boat commander who, when in...Yeah. There was one U-boat commander who, when interviewed after the war (or his capture), said that the worst thing about combat patrols off the American coast was "all of those fucking little yellow and red airplanes."<br /><br />People have forgotten that those early U-boats were submersibles, not true submarines. They went far faster, with more effectiveness and in more comfort if they could operate surfaced. They had a far better visual search horizon if they were on the surface, rather than one man peering through a periscope.Comrade Misfithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15404477636451308763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4585442725225382080.post-159315752197403072010-12-18T13:30:01.675-06:002010-12-18T13:30:01.675-06:00OMG, the government allowed CAP flights to have *B...OMG, the government allowed CAP flights to have *BOMBS* back then? That would never be allowed today, because our government is too scared of the citizenry, I mean, you think a government so scared of the citizenry that they won't let us have *nail clippers* on planes would allow *bombs*?! What if one of those CAP flights dropped their bomb on an IRS building or something? OMG! No no, better to let ships sink!<br /><br />- Badtux the "Hmm, what kind of government is scared of the people?" PenguinBadTuxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01345749557330760251noreply@blogger.com